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The situation is a simple one....I hope.

Menu Background is a movie looping, with all required info in the loop.

Buttons simply need to go over the top of this.

I know how to do this in a DVD easily ewnough, but there is no mention of motion menus in the tutorial project, so I would be extremely grateful if someone can tell me how to proceed, please.

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The "concept" of menus per se in Blu Ray is confusing... especially if you come from a DVD background. As they don't really exist like they do on DVD...
A moving Main Menu is basically just a piece of looping video over which your beautifully created "Main Menu" loads as it would over your movie when it's playing or any extras. So anything you want to be permanently on the menu has be in the video part.
So you set up your Menu loop as a Segment/Playlist with it set to end jump onto itself so it loops. Then on the Start of that Menu loop video set the Action Show Menu Block etc...
And you can't have movie Scene Access as this is just another menu block that loads over the top of your Menu Loop video
Is that clear??? Hope it is...

Additional:  See my BLOG "DVD to BDJ transition..." it is mostly about menus and how I created the menus I had done for a DVD in BDJ.

Another tip:  You can put the normal button state in the menu so they can 'fade in' or some other way of appearing after an intro.  You have to keep the normal state in the PSD as Mosaic requires it.  But once in DSA, you can delete the normal state so it won't interfere with your video. Of course, the nomal state may be a graphic or something else not in the video.  I use a still from the video as a background in the PSD to align things in the menu.  Remember to delete it before importing to Mosaic.

Be sure to have your menu loop run at least 1 second past the loop back chapter point otherwise you will get a blank screen during the loop back.  The audio will be silent for about 1 second during the loop back, so most fade it in just after the starting chapter and out just before the loop back chapter.

Of course a popup menu, if used, has to have all the button states.  Make the popup menu, if used, the last menu set in the last menu - at the bottom of the layers list in the PSD.  Mosaic reads the PSD from bottom to top so that will make it the top menu.  The top menu is the default used when the popup button is pressed on the remote.  You can show any menu set as the main menu.

 

Hope this helps.

 

Paul Masters

Hi Paul.

My biggest problem is that all graphics and menus have been designed by someone with not only a very limited grasp of English, so there is a language issue, but also they were going to be using the appalling Adobe Encore for authoring - with Dolby Digital audio for the surround stream!!! This isa music release, so utterly unacceptable and we have ended up with the job.

This is my first proper commercial project so a certain element of hand-holding may well be needed - although it does not look too complex. Okay, each menu has an intro, then a main loop so what I have in mind - if this is possible - is to merge the 2 (intro & loop) and hopefully set it up so that the buttons do not appear until the loop section. Is this possible, or even preferable? If I set things up as separate segments, will the transition between menu intro & menu loop be seamless?

I have 4 menus to deal with, and 4 intros to the menus. There is not a single still image in the project with the sole exception of the pop-up for the main sequence. Main video content is easy enough - one main stream & 6 extras. Main stream & extras will both have DTS-HD MAS audio.

The other issue is really "will the DSE be good enough for the final AVC files?" I am quite surprised buy the utter lack of real control over the encoding so I guess the answer here will be to run it & see what comes out of it, and go buy CineVision if it is not up to par.

First, the easy answer.  I can't speak about DSE as I haven't yet used it. 

I use Sony Vegas which has MPEG2 and AVC rendering.  For the menus to be more precise, I use MPEG2 because that has an option to put I frames at chapter marks on the time line.  As the menus are fairly short, the larger file created by MPEG2 isn't a problem.  I use AVC for the main video.  DSA will reposition chapter marks if not at an I frame, but I am not sure if it is to the nearest or the next.

 

I have done what you describe and it works fine.  I have put the intro and menu background(s) in the same time line in Vegas and rendered then as one segment with the appropriate chapter marks to make the I frames.

However, separate segments will work just as well.  To have them seamless, put them in the correct order in the Video Audio Segments list.  They are put on the disc in the order of that list.  You can drag and drop the entries to place them in the order you want. 

So what you would have, one way or another:

Intro segment, chapter for menu start - menu start segment, chapter for menu loop back - menu segment, chapter for menu loop, at least 1 second more of menu background (to avoid a blank screen at the loop).

At chapter for menu start - show the menu.

At chapter for menu loop - an action to play chapter for menu loop back.

Of course the menu start and menu segments can be the same segment with a chapter mark about 1 second into the segment for the loop back if you aren't doing any entry animation with the menu video.

 

As to having 4 menus, you can string all of the intro/menus in the same playlist or put each in a different playlist.  While there will be a delay in jumping from one menu to another in the same playlist it should be less than if in different playlists.

 

As the video will freeze at the loop point, you should pick a place where there is not much going on in the video and match it with the loop back point if possible.  The loop should be at least 10 seconds but, of course it can be longer to fit the video / audio as needed.

The audio will not play for about 1 second during the loop back so if continuous, it should fade out just before the loop chapter and in just after the loop back chapter to not be as jarring.  Of course, if those can be start and end of the audio, all the better.

I would leave the audio in the part between the show menu and the menu loop back chapter silent if possible, because the first part of the loop back will likely be a fade in.

I would suggest that you turn off all the User Operations (except for the button ones (G)) for each playlist that has a menu.  That will keep the viewer from jumping to an interesting and strange and confusing place.

 

My BLOG on DVD to BDJ transition describes much of this and with pictures.

 

Hope this helps.  Its not easy to describe with out pictures.

 

Paul Masters

It's not very hard. Create your background video like you would normally (for DVD). If you use an intro video where the text doesn't appear for a few seconds then you need to have your text in your video and rather overlay the selections like you would on DVD. Also in an intro scenario, you would need to place a chapter point where the selection should start. Use "show menu block" command to show your overlay menu. To avoid overlaying in normal state, simply create an empty layer in Photoshop and name it (N: ...). Didn't work in some previous versions on DSE, but it works in the latest version.

For looping it's quite easy. In previous versions (pre playlist era) you needed to put a chapter point a second before the video end and then put a "Play chapter" command at that chapter. You would also have to keep in mind your audio track had to be faded out before the chapter point. Also remember that chapter points can only be placed on i-frames, so if you wanted exact placement of these in and out points you needed to manually insert/tell encoder to place an i-frame at the wanted time. These days you can simply add your main menu video to the playlist as many times as you want and thus you'll have a perfect dvd style loop. To avoid having to add lots of main menus to one playlist, simply open the playlist, go to the last added item, go to the start event and put a "play chapter" to the start event.

Looks easy enough (he says).

Thanks Guys.

I will be putting the navigation together on this one either late this week or early next week in readiness for the actual main assets so hopefully I have enough to get it done.

Much appreciated

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